Update of charset windows-1252, draft 3

[Erik van der Poel]

OK, here is draft no. 3.

Erik

---------------------------

Charset name: windows-1252

Charset aliases: (None)

Suitability for use in MIME text:

Yes, windows-1252 is suitable for use with subtypes of the "text"
Content-Type. Note that windows-1252 is an 8-bit charset. Care should
be taken to choose an appropriate Content-Transfer-Encoding.

Published specification(s):

1) Dr. International "Developing International Software, Second Edition",
Microsoft Press, ISBN 0-7356-1583-7, 2003, p. 743-747

2) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/sbcs/1252.htm

ISO 10646 equivalency table:

http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP1252.TXT

Additional information:

This is an update of an existing registration of this charset. This
charset name is in use.

Older versions of this charset have been registered as
ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1.

This charset is also known as Windows Code Page 1252 or cp1252 for
short; these are NOT aliases.

The graphic (non-control) characters of Windows-1252 are a superset of
the graphic characters of the ISO-8859-1 charset. See the range 80 to
9F (hex).

Person & email address to contact for further information:

Mike Ksar
Email: ***@microsoft.com

Microsoft Corporation
One Microsoft Way,
Redmond, WA 98052
U.S.A.

Intended usage: COMMON

[Ned Freed]

> OK, here is draft no. 3.

I think this looks good.

Ned

> ---------------------------

> Charset name: windows-1252

> Charset aliases: (None)

> Suitability for use in MIME text:

> Yes, windows-1252 is suitable for use with subtypes of the "text"
> Content-Type. Note that windows-1252 is an 8-bit charset. Care should
> be taken to choose an appropriate Content-Transfer-Encoding.

> Published specification(s):

> 1) Dr. International "Developing International Software, Second Edition",
> Microsoft Press, ISBN 0-7356-1583-7, 2003, p. 743-747

> 2) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/sbcs/1252.htm

> ISO 10646 equivalency table:

> http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP1252.TXT

> Additional information:

> This is an update of an existing registration of this charset. This
> charset name is in use.

> Older versions of this charset have been registered as
> ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1.

> This charset is also known as Windows Code Page 1252 or cp1252 for
> short; these are NOT aliases.

> The graphic (non-control) characters of Windows-1252 are a superset of
> the graphic characters of the ISO-8859-1 charset. See the range 80 to
> 9F (hex).

> Person & email address to contact for further information:

> Mike Ksar
> Email: ***@microsoft.com

> Microsoft Corporation
> One Microsoft Way,
> Redmond, WA 98052
> U.S.A.

> Intended usage: COMMON

[Erik van der Poel]

Mike and Shawn,

Would you like to change the contact person to Shawn?

And does the rest of this update text look good to you too?

Erik

On 11/5/06, Ned Freed <***@mrochek.com> wrote:
> > OK, here is draft no. 3.
>
> I think this looks good.
>
> Ned
>
> > ---------------------------
>
> > Charset name: windows-1252
>
> > Charset aliases: (None)
>
> > Suitability for use in MIME text:
>
> > Yes, windows-1252 is suitable for use with subtypes of the "text"
> > Content-Type. Note that windows-1252 is an 8-bit charset. Care should
> > be taken to choose an appropriate Content-Transfer-Encoding.
>
> > Published specification(s):
>
> > 1) Dr. International "Developing International Software, Second Edition",
> > Microsoft Press, ISBN 0-7356-1583-7, 2003, p. 743-747
>
> > 2) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/sbcs/1252.htm
>
> > ISO 10646 equivalency table:
>
> > http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP1252.TXT
>
> > Additional information:
>
> > This is an update of an existing registration of this charset. This
> > charset name is in use.
>
> > Older versions of this charset have been registered as
> > ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1.
>
> > This charset is also known as Windows Code Page 1252 or cp1252 for
> > short; these are NOT aliases.
>
> > The graphic (non-control) characters of Windows-1252 are a superset of
> > the graphic characters of the ISO-8859-1 charset. See the range 80 to
> > 9F (hex).
>
> > Person & email address to contact for further information:
>
> > Mike Ksar
> > Email: ***@microsoft.com
>
> > Microsoft Corporation
> > One Microsoft Way,
> > Redmond, WA 98052
> > U.S.A.
>
> > Intended usage: COMMON
>

[Mike Ksar]

I do not have an issue of changing the contact name to Shawn.

Mike Ksar
________________________________________
From: Erik van der Poel [***@google.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:47 AM
To: Mike Ksar; Shawn Steele
Cc: ietf-***@iana.org; Ned Freed
Subject: Re: Update of charset windows-1252, draft 3

Mike and Shawn,

Would you like to change the contact person to Shawn?

And does the rest of this update text look good to you too?

Erik

On 11/5/06, Ned Freed <***@mrochek.com> wrote:
> > OK, here is draft no. 3.
>
> I think this looks good.
>
> Ned
>
> > ---------------------------
>
> > Charset name: windows-1252
>
> > Charset aliases: (None)
>
> > Suitability for use in MIME text:
>
> > Yes, windows-1252 is suitable for use with subtypes of the "text"
> > Content-Type. Note that windows-1252 is an 8-bit charset. Care should
> > be taken to choose an appropriate Content-Transfer-Encoding.
>
> > Published specification(s):
>
> > 1) Dr. International "Developing International Software, Second Edition",
> > Microsoft Press, ISBN 0-7356-1583-7, 2003, p. 743-747
>
> > 2) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/sbcs/1252.htm
>
> > ISO 10646 equivalency table:
>
> > http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP1252.TXT
>
> > Additional information:
>
> > This is an update of an existing registration of this charset. This
> > charset name is in use.
>
> > Older versions of this charset have been registered as
> > ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1.
>
> > This charset is also known as Windows Code Page 1252 or cp1252 for
> > short; these are NOT aliases.
>
> > The graphic (non-control) characters of Windows-1252 are a superset of
> > the graphic characters of the ISO-8859-1 charset. See the range 80 to
> > 9F (hex).
>
> > Person & email address to contact for further information:
>
> > Mike Ksar
> > Email: ***@microsoft.com
>
> > Microsoft Corporation
> > One Microsoft Way,
> > Redmond, WA 98052
> > U.S.A.
>
> > Intended usage: COMMON
>

[Shawn Steele]

As discussed, I am a better contact now than Mike Ksar here at
Microsoft.

I don't think that the Dr. International book should be considered as a
published specification. I'm certain that in the event of a discrepancy
between that book and the actual behavior or the Microsoft.com/globaldev
data that the book would "lose". It is an interesting resource for
people wanting a printed copy, but that book wasn't intended to be a
spec.

Otherwise I am happy with this draft.

- Shawn

> ---------------------------

> Charset name: windows-1252

> Charset aliases: (None)

> Suitability for use in MIME text:

> Yes, windows-1252 is suitable for use with subtypes of the "text"
> Content-Type. Note that windows-1252 is an 8-bit charset. Care should
> be taken to choose an appropriate Content-Transfer-Encoding.

> Published specification(s):

> 1) Dr. International "Developing International Software, Second
Edition",
> Microsoft Press, ISBN 0-7356-1583-7, 2003, p. 743-747

> 2) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/sbcs/1252.htm

> ISO 10646 equivalency table:

>
http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP1252.TXT

> Additional information:

> This is an update of an existing registration of this charset. This
> charset name is in use.

> Older versions of this charset have been registered as
> ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1.

> This charset is also known as Windows Code Page 1252 or cp1252 for
> short; these are NOT aliases.

> The graphic (non-control) characters of Windows-1252 are a superset of
> the graphic characters of the ISO-8859-1 charset. See the range 80 to
> 9F (hex).

> Person & email address to contact for further information:

> Mike Ksar
> Email: ***@microsoft.com

> Microsoft Corporation
> One Microsoft Way,
> Redmond, WA 98052
> U.S.A.

> Intended usage: COMMON

[Martin Duerst]

What about just exchanging items 1) and 2) in the registration?

Regards, Martin.

At 09:17 06/11/07, Shawn Steele wrote:
>As discussed, I am a better contact now than Mike Ksar here at
>Microsoft.
>
>I don't think that the Dr. International book should be considered as a
>published specification. I'm certain that in the event of a discrepancy
>between that book and the actual behavior or the Microsoft.com/globaldev
>data that the book would "lose". It is an interesting resource for
>people wanting a printed copy, but that book wasn't intended to be a
>spec.
>
>Otherwise I am happy with this draft.
>
>- Shawn
>
>> ---------------------------
>
>> Charset name: windows-1252
>
>> Charset aliases: (None)
>
>> Suitability for use in MIME text:
>
>> Yes, windows-1252 is suitable for use with subtypes of the "text"
>> Content-Type. Note that windows-1252 is an 8-bit charset. Care should
>> be taken to choose an appropriate Content-Transfer-Encoding.
>
>> Published specification(s):
>
>> 1) Dr. International "Developing International Software, Second
>Edition",
>> Microsoft Press, ISBN 0-7356-1583-7, 2003, p. 743-747
>
>> 2) http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/sbcs/1252.htm
>
>> ISO 10646 equivalency table:
>
>>
>http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP1252.TXT
>
>> Additional information:
>
>> This is an update of an existing registration of this charset. This
>> charset name is in use.
>
>> Older versions of this charset have been registered as
>> ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1.
>
>> This charset is also known as Windows Code Page 1252 or cp1252 for
>> short; these are NOT aliases.
>
>> The graphic (non-control) characters of Windows-1252 are a superset of
>> the graphic characters of the ISO-8859-1 charset. See the range 80 to
>> 9F (hex).
>
>> Person & email address to contact for further information:
>
>> Mike Ksar
>> Email: ***@microsoft.com
>
>> Microsoft Corporation
>> One Microsoft Way,
>> Redmond, WA 98052
>> U.S.A.
>
>> Intended usage: COMMON


#-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp

[Kent Karlsson]

> Older versions of this charset have been registered as
> ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1.

1) These "sort-of aliases" should really be deprecated somehow.

2) For some reason those entries list PCL "symbol set ids" 19U (and 9U).
a) IIUC 19U is now used for windows-1252 (effectively, AFAIC
find there's no other PCL "symbol set id" for windows-1252).
b) I don't know why the PCL "symbol set ids" are listed for
those,
while not for others, nor why the PCL designations are given
but not AFP (T1001252), PGL (314), or others.

> This charset is also known as Windows Code Page 1252 or cp1252 for
> short; these are NOT aliases.

I'd rather have cpwindows1252 (see
www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib)
explicitly listed as an alias than having (non-deprecated) the sort-of
aliases
"ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1" and "ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1".

/kent k

[Erik van der Poel]

When Ned and Martin became the new charset reviewers, they said that
they would first process the backlog of registration requests, and
then clean up the registry. So I propose that we remove the paragraph
about ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and
ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1 from the windows-1252 update. We can
deal with those 2 charsets later, when we clean up the registry.

I don't think we should add cpwindows1252 or any other alias to the
windows-1252 registration either.

Erik

> > Older versions of this charset have been registered as
> > ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1.
>
> 1) These "sort-of aliases" should really be deprecated somehow.
>
> 2) For some reason those entries list PCL "symbol set ids" 19U (and 9U).
> a) IIUC 19U is now used for windows-1252 (effectively, AFAIC
> find there's no other PCL "symbol set id" for windows-1252).
> b) I don't know why the PCL "symbol set ids" are listed for
> those,
> while not for others, nor why the PCL designations are given
> but not AFP (T1001252), PGL (314), or others.
>
> > This charset is also known as Windows Code Page 1252 or cp1252 for
> > short; these are NOT aliases.
>
> I'd rather have cpwindows1252 (see
> www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib)
> explicitly listed as an alias than having (non-deprecated) the sort-of
> aliases
> "ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1" and "ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1".
>
> /kent k
>
>

[Martin Duerst]

At 10:04 06/11/06, Erik van der Poel wrote:
>When Ned and Martin became the new charset reviewers, they said that
>they would first process the backlog of registration requests, and
>then clean up the registry. So I propose that we remove the paragraph
>about ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and
>ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1 from the windows-1252 update. We can
>deal with those 2 charsets later, when we clean up the registry.

That would be fine with me.

>I don't think we should add cpwindows1252 or any other alias to the
>windows-1252 registration either.

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2978.txt says:

All charsets MUST be assigned a name that provides a display string
for the associated "MIBenum" value defined below. These "MIBenum"
values are defined by and used in the Printer MIB [RFC-1759]. Such
names MUST begin with the letters "cs" and MUST contain no more than
40 characters (including the "cs" prefix) chosen from from the
printable subset of US-ASCII. Only one name beginning with "cs" may
be assigned to a single charset. If no name of this form is
explicitly defined IANA will assign an alias consisting of "cs"
prepended to the primary charset name.

This assignement has already happened. I'm not sure why this appears
at http://www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib but not at
http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets, but given that for
many other registrations, an alias that starts with "cs" is listed
at http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets, it may be an
oversight. Ned, what's your take on this? Anybody else with MIB
experience?

Regards, Martin.




#-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp

[Erik van der Poel]

In http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets it says:

"These aliases that start with "cs" contain the standard numbers along
with suggestive names in order to facilitate applications that want to
display the names in user interfaces."

And in ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2978.txt it says:

"All charsets MUST be assigned a name that provides a display string
for the associated "MIBenum" value defined below."

This wording (particularly the word "display") would seem to suggest
that these cs names are not really intended to be used "on the wire".

However, putting these cs names on lines that start with "Alias:" in
the registry has caused a number of implementors to believe that they
are normal aliases:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/charsets/charset4.asp
http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/intl/uconv/src/charsetalias.properties

I still don't think it would be a good idea to add any "Alias:" lines
to the windows-1252 registration. One possible solution would be a new
line that starts with "MIBdisplay:" to go along with the "MIBenum:"
line.

Erik

On 11/6/06, McDonald, Ira <***@sharplabs.com> wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> As the author of the original IANA Charset MIB [RFC3808],
> I'd like to point out section 3 'Generation of IANA Charset
> MIB' which says the original MIB was machine-generated from
> the then current IANA Charset Registry (the text form).
>
> My contributed utility 'ianachar.c' auto-generated a 'cs...'
> alias when 'cs...' was missing (due to faulty registrations)
> in the IANA Charset Registry.
>
> That's why you find a complete set of 'cs...' aliases in the
> IANA Charset MIB but not in IANA Charset Registry - yet - we
> should clean it up, right?
>
> Cheers,
> - Ira
>
> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
> phone: [phone]
> email: ***@sharplabs.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Duerst [mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp]
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:16 AM
> To: Erik van der Poel; Kent Karlsson
> Cc: ietf-***@iana.org; ***@microsoft.com
> Subject: Re: Update of charset windows-1252, draft 3
>
>
> At 10:04 06/11/06, Erik van der Poel wrote:
> >When Ned and Martin became the new charset reviewers, they said that
> >they would first process the backlog of registration requests, and
> >then clean up the registry. So I propose that we remove the paragraph
> >about ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and
> >ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1 from the windows-1252 update. We can
> >deal with those 2 charsets later, when we clean up the registry.
>
> That would be fine with me.
>
> >I don't think we should add cpwindows1252 or any other alias to the
> >windows-1252 registration either.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2978.txt says:
>
> All charsets MUST be assigned a name that provides a display string
> for the associated "MIBenum" value defined below. These "MIBenum"
> values are defined by and used in the Printer MIB [RFC-1759]. Such
> names MUST begin with the letters "cs" and MUST contain no more than
> 40 characters (including the "cs" prefix) chosen from from the
> printable subset of US-ASCII. Only one name beginning with "cs" may
> be assigned to a single charset. If no name of this form is
> explicitly defined IANA will assign an alias consisting of "cs"
> prepended to the primary charset name.
>
> This assignement has already happened. I'm not sure why this appears
> at http://www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib but not at
> http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets, but given that for
> many other registrations, an alias that starts with "cs" is listed
> at http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets, it may be an
> oversight. Ned, what's your take on this? Anybody else with MIB
> experience?
>
> Regards, Martin.
>
>
>
>
> #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
> #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp
>
>

[Erik van der Poel]

It might be somewhat redundant to have cswindows1252 in both
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib and
http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets. Since the latter has
the MIBenum value (2252), interested parties can look this up in the
former file to find the cs name.

We would probably also want to change the rules regarding the cs
names. From that point on, cs names would only be put into the mib
file, while the MIBenum number would go into both files. Thoughts?

Erik

On 11/6/06, Erik van der Poel <***@google.com> wrote:
> In http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets it says:
>
> "These aliases that start with "cs" contain the standard numbers along
> with suggestive names in order to facilitate applications that want to
> display the names in user interfaces."
>
> And in ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2978.txt it says:
>
> "All charsets MUST be assigned a name that provides a display string
> for the associated "MIBenum" value defined below."
>
> This wording (particularly the word "display") would seem to suggest
> that these cs names are not really intended to be used "on the wire".
>
> However, putting these cs names on lines that start with "Alias:" in
> the registry has caused a number of implementors to believe that they
> are normal aliases:
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/charsets/charset4.asp
> http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/intl/uconv/src/charsetalias.properties
>
> I still don't think it would be a good idea to add any "Alias:" lines
> to the windows-1252 registration. One possible solution would be a new
> line that starts with "MIBdisplay:" to go along with the "MIBenum:"
> line.
>
> Erik
>
> On 11/6/06, McDonald, Ira <***@sharplabs.com> wrote:
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > As the author of the original IANA Charset MIB [RFC3808],
> > I'd like to point out section 3 'Generation of IANA Charset
> > MIB' which says the original MIB was machine-generated from
> > the then current IANA Charset Registry (the text form).
> >
> > My contributed utility 'ianachar.c' auto-generated a 'cs...'
> > alias when 'cs...' was missing (due to faulty registrations)
> > in the IANA Charset Registry.
> >
> > That's why you find a complete set of 'cs...' aliases in the
> > IANA Charset MIB but not in IANA Charset Registry - yet - we
> > should clean it up, right?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > - Ira
> >
> > Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
> > Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
> > PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
> > phone: [phone]
> > email: ***@sharplabs.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Duerst [mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp]
> > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:16 AM
> > To: Erik van der Poel; Kent Karlsson
> > Cc: ietf-***@iana.org; ***@microsoft.com
> > Subject: Re: Update of charset windows-1252, draft 3
> >
> >
> > At 10:04 06/11/06, Erik van der Poel wrote:
> > >When Ned and Martin became the new charset reviewers, they said that
> > >they would first process the backlog of registration requests, and
> > >then clean up the registry. So I propose that we remove the paragraph
> > >about ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and
> > >ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1 from the windows-1252 update. We can
> > >deal with those 2 charsets later, when we clean up the registry.
> >
> > That would be fine with me.
> >
> > >I don't think we should add cpwindows1252 or any other alias to the
> > >windows-1252 registration either.
> >
> > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2978.txt says:
> >
> > All charsets MUST be assigned a name that provides a display string
> > for the associated "MIBenum" value defined below. These "MIBenum"
> > values are defined by and used in the Printer MIB [RFC-1759]. Such
> > names MUST begin with the letters "cs" and MUST contain no more than
> > 40 characters (including the "cs" prefix) chosen from from the
> > printable subset of US-ASCII. Only one name beginning with "cs" may
> > be assigned to a single charset. If no name of this form is
> > explicitly defined IANA will assign an alias consisting of "cs"
> > prepended to the primary charset name.
> >
> > This assignement has already happened. I'm not sure why this appears
> > at http://www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib but not at
> > http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets, but given that for
> > many other registrations, an alias that starts with "cs" is listed
> > at http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets, it may be an
> > oversight. Ned, what's your take on this? Anybody else with MIB
> > experience?
> >
> > Regards, Martin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
> > #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp
> >
> >
>

[Martin Duerst]

Hello Erik,

These are good ideas to discuss if and when we embark on a
revision of rfc 2978. For the moment, all we are doing is
catch up with registration backlog.

Regards, Martin.

At 14:44 06/11/07, Erik van der Poel wrote:
>It might be somewhat redundant to have cswindows1252 in both
>http://www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib and
>http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets. Since the latter has
>the MIBenum value (2252), interested parties can look this up in the
>former file to find the cs name.
>
>We would probably also want to change the rules regarding the cs
>names. From that point on, cs names would only be put into the mib
>file, while the MIBenum number would go into both files. Thoughts?
>
>Erik
>
>On 11/6/06, Erik van der Poel <***@google.com> wrote:
>> In http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets it says:
>>
>> "These aliases that start with "cs" contain the standard numbers along
>> with suggestive names in order to facilitate applications that want to
>> display the names in user interfaces."
>>
>> And in ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2978.txt it says:
>>
>> "All charsets MUST be assigned a name that provides a display string
>> for the associated "MIBenum" value defined below."
>>
>> This wording (particularly the word "display") would seem to suggest
>> that these cs names are not really intended to be used "on the wire".
>>
>> However, putting these cs names on lines that start with "Alias:" in
>> the registry has caused a number of implementors to believe that they
>> are normal aliases:
>>
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/charsets/charset4.asp
>> http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/intl/uconv/src/charsetalias.properties
>>
>> I still don't think it would be a good idea to add any "Alias:" lines
>> to the windows-1252 registration. One possible solution would be a new
>> line that starts with "MIBdisplay:" to go along with the "MIBenum:"
>> line.
>>
>> Erik



#-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp

[Mike Ksar]

I have transferred all the submittals for registrations to Shawn Steel at Microsoft. He will be the new contact from Microsoft.

Mike Ksar

[McDonald Ira]

Hi Martin,

As the author of the original IANA Charset MIB [RFC3808],
I'd like to point out section 3 'Generation of IANA Charset
MIB' which says the original MIB was machine-generated from
the then current IANA Charset Registry (the text form).

My contributed utility 'ianachar.c' auto-generated a 'cs...'
alias when 'cs...' was missing (due to faulty registrations)
in the IANA Charset Registry.

That's why you find a complete set of 'cs...' aliases in the
IANA Charset MIB but not in IANA Charset Registry - yet - we
should clean it up, right?

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
phone: [phone]
email: ***@sharplabs.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Duerst [mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp]
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:16 AM
To: Erik van der Poel; Kent Karlsson
Cc: ietf-***@iana.org; ***@microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Update of charset windows-1252, draft 3


At 10:04 06/11/06, Erik van der Poel wrote:
>When Ned and Martin became the new charset reviewers, they said that
>they would first process the backlog of registration requests, and
>then clean up the registry. So I propose that we remove the paragraph
>about ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.0-Latin-1 and
>ISO-8859-1-Windows-3.1-Latin-1 from the windows-1252 update. We can
>deal with those 2 charsets later, when we clean up the registry.

That would be fine with me.

>I don't think we should add cpwindows1252 or any other alias to the
>windows-1252 registration either.

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2978.txt says:

All charsets MUST be assigned a name that provides a display string
for the associated "MIBenum" value defined below. These "MIBenum"
values are defined by and used in the Printer MIB [RFC-1759]. Such
names MUST begin with the letters "cs" and MUST contain no more than
40 characters (including the "cs" prefix) chosen from from the
printable subset of US-ASCII. Only one name beginning with "cs" may
be assigned to a single charset. If no name of this form is
explicitly defined IANA will assign an alias consisting of "cs"
prepended to the primary charset name.

This assignement has already happened. I'm not sure why this appears
at http://www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib but not at
http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets, but given that for
many other registrations, an alias that starts with "cs" is listed
at http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets, it may be an
oversight. Ned, what's your take on this? Anybody else with MIB
experience?

Regards, Martin.




#-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp

[McDonald Ira]

Hi,

Yes, and 2978 and its predecessor _require_ a 'cs' alias
for all valid registrations. I very much dislike the MIB
containing only auto-generated ones. For a variety of
reasons, the existing 'cs' aliases do NOT agree exactly
with what the auto-generated ones would have been.

If we deleted a 'cs' alias from the Charset Registry, it
might well become a _different_ 'cs' alias in the next
version of the Charset MIB - an interoperability nightmare
for MIB implementors tagging charsets for I18N.

'cs' alias continues to be required for registrations.

Cheers,
- Ira

Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc
PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839
phone: [phone]
email: ***@sharplabs.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Duerst [mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:57 AM
To: Erik van der Poel; McDonald, Ira
Cc: Kent Karlsson; ietf-***@iana.org; ***@microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Update of charset windows-1252, draft 3


Hello Erik,

These are good ideas to discuss if and when we embark on a
revision of rfc 2978. For the moment, all we are doing is
catch up with registration backlog.

Regards, Martin.

At 14:44 06/11/07, Erik van der Poel wrote:
>It might be somewhat redundant to have cswindows1252 in both
>http://www.iana.org/assignments/ianacharset-mib and
>http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets. Since the latter has
>the MIBenum value (2252), interested parties can look this up in the
>former file to find the cs name.
>
>We would probably also want to change the rules regarding the cs
>names. From that point on, cs names would only be put into the mib
>file, while the MIBenum number would go into both files. Thoughts?
>
>Erik
>
>On 11/6/06, Erik van der Poel <***@google.com> wrote:
>> In http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets it says:
>>
>> "These aliases that start with "cs" contain the standard numbers along
>> with suggestive names in order to facilitate applications that want to
>> display the names in user interfaces."
>>
>> And in ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2978.txt it says:
>>
>> "All charsets MUST be assigned a name that provides a display string
>> for the associated "MIBenum" value defined below."
>>
>> This wording (particularly the word "display") would seem to suggest
>> that these cs names are not really intended to be used "on the wire".
>>
>> However, putting these cs names on lines that start with "Alias:" in
>> the registry has caused a number of implementors to believe that they
>> are normal aliases:
>>
>>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/ref
erence/charsets/charset4.asp
>>
http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/intl/uconv/src/charsetalias.properti
es
>>
>> I still don't think it would be a good idea to add any "Alias:" lines
>> to the windows-1252 registration. One possible solution would be a new
>> line that starts with "MIBdisplay:" to go along with the "MIBenum:"
>> line.
>>
>> Erik



#-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:***@it.aoyama.ac.jp


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.32/523 - Release Date: 11/7/2006